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Please note. I get a few hundred emails a week from visitors asking for help, or posing questions on how to modify my demos to suit their application and I read them all. Unfortunately I only have a limited amount of time to spend answering these questions.

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kodeman, your comments are noted.
This site, however, is for experiments in css and that is exactly what this is, an experiment to see if this was possible. I don't see a screen reader as being too important in an experiment and especially as this is a photo gallery (not very interesting to someone using a screenreader).
I do also agree with your comments about nested inks etc. and you will find that most of my pages on this site do present valid xhtml and css.
I hope that you find the rest of my site interesting and enjoyable experiments.

Best wishes
Mr Nicholls
(Stu to everbody else)
(31.03.2006, 22:20)

Stu:- screen readers read IE conditional comments?
(31.03.2006, 23:20)

I understand the point is to experiment. As it were, the comments I made can be taken to emphasise that point. My point is simply that, while possible and neat, these kinds of demonstrations can and do get the green light for production use (in the minds of some) when stamped with the word 'valid'. You may realize that experimental/bleeding-edge techniques, such as the IE7 script, while carrying a warning not to be used in production, is widely used nonetheless. I'd like to point out, not only for you, but also to your readers that the technique can be done without harming the innocent using the techniques I described in the previous post. And, Stu, the screen-readers of which I spoke are built on top of MSHTML and/or MSIE itself, and are fed the content and markup cues post-rendering. So, yes, they will get what is between conditional comments, just as IE sees it. Cheers.
(02.04.2006, 08:31)

kodeman, I understand what you say, but all I am doing is getting IE to recognise nested links in the same way as you can nest uls (it's not rocket science to have an 'outer' link and an 'inner' link). IE7 by the way will see the valid markup that Firefox etc see so the 'problem' is with IE6 and IE5.5.

Now, to take this further, xhtml1.1 and xhtml2 allow you to add/modify the dtd - so I could have added my own dtd to allow nested links (and 'target' if I want)- this will then make the markup 'valid' without the conditional comments and IE/Firefox etc should understand.
How will the readers cope with xhtml1.1 and 2 when there is a bespoke dtd?
(02.04.2006, 09:39)

Stu, the 'problem' is nested links causing unintended side-effects.

It's not the fact that the nested tags are anchors, it's the fact that anchors are 'link' elements. All content within the outer anchor is part of the link, including the inner anchor.

A link is understood only to interact 'as a whole', not on a sub-element basis. Nested link behavior is undefined.

In practice, the target that gets honored varies between user agents. The fact that it can be made to validate is, at best, a red herring. Your 'out' -- a custom DTD -- provides no mechanism for you to disambiguate that situation.

Visitors do not care if you can justify the alteration of the intuitive link using some 'standards' loophole. They want to know why they didn't go where they thought the link would take them.

As for how readers will cope, they will do as they do now -- treat a link element as a self-contained object. They are right to do so.
(03.04.2006, 23:58)

I still believe that this way is better than a javascript 'bodge' that would require an alternative menu for visitors with javascript turned off.
Once IE7 is established and IE5.5/IE6 have had their day, this method will no longer be required and it will vanish in favour of the li:hover alternative.
This will not require any alteration on the part of the webmaster.

However, just to see what problems it causes, can you point me in the direction of the IE screen reader software so I can see if there is any way that this can be resolved.
(04.04.2006, 08:20)

Jeremy Stover:-
Hey Stu,

Just wondering if you give out help or assistance on your forum here. I'm having a bit of trouble with my CSS using mozilla (Although it worked fine a week or 2 ago-I'm wondering if mozilla changed something). If you can see if you can help me out, I'd appreciate it.

The site is

My email address is if you can get back to me. If not I can keep checking here. Thanks!
(05.04.2006, 03:47)

Jeremy, it looks like your html page is missing a little markup, like the </head> and the <body>.....</body></html> etc.

The style sheet may be loading but it isn't seeing the page correctly.
(06.04.2006, 11:28)

Just to let you know Multi-page photo gallery MK.2 and MK.3 do not work properly in ie 7 beta. Once the thumbnail is clicked, the large pic appears fine (you need to hold it clicked to display the large one in opera),when going outside the large pics (white part), the large pic appears on the left of the screen, it is hard to get rid of it then... Thanks anyway for sharing all of this.... Cedric cmainguy@gmail
(08.04.2006, 09:52)

I've tried to rework recent menus to see if I can get a page from a different server to load into a division ( httprequest) but unsuccessful so far (without JavaScript). Which of your menus is the best candidate to reverse engineer? Plan to link a Favicon to open a page into a redundent column's div.
(15.04.2006, 15:15)

10 of 66 comments (part 5). [ « ] [ » ] [ * ]


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